並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E5%91%B1%E5%90%89%E7%9B%B4%E6%92%AD-%E6%83%85%E4%BA%BA%E7%AF%80%E5%91%8A%E7%99%BD-ep4-%E6%9C%80%E5%BE%8C%E5%B0%84%E6%93%8A%E6%98%AF%E6%B2%92%E7%94%A8%E7%9A%84/id1477164549?i=1000513359554