並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-16-%E9%80%81%E8%A1%8C-%E7%94%9F%E4%BA%BA%E5%8B%BF%E8%BF%91-%E5%BD%B0%E5%8C%96%E6%B0%91%E9%96%93%E9%80%81%E8%82%89%E7%B2%BD%E7%BF%92%E4%BF%97/id1526048089?i=1000492317216