並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep130-%E8%85%B8%E9%81%93%E6%98%AF%E7%AC%AC%E4%BA%8C%E5%A4%A7%E8%85%A6-%E7%9A%84%E7%A7%91%E5%AD%B8%E4%BD%90%E8%AD%89-%E8%AA%BF%E6%95%B4%E8%BA%AB%E5%BF%83%E7%9A%84%E7%9B%8A%E7%94%9F%E8%8F%8C%E7%A0%94%E7%A9%B6-ft-%E4%B8%AD%E5%9C%8B%E9%86%AB%E8%97%A5%E5%A4%A7%E5%AD%B8-%E6%9E%97%E6%96%87%E9%91%AB%E6%95%99%E6%8E%88/id1547950387?i=1000565730439