並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-013-%E8%81%8A%E9%99%A2%E7%B7%9A-%E4%B8%80%E8%B5%B7%E8%A6%8B%E8%AD%89%E8%B5%B0%E6%A8%A3%E7%9A%84-%E8%8A%B1%E6%9C%A8%E8%98%AD-%E8%8A%B1%E6%83%B9%E7%99%BC-%E8%BF%AA%E5%A3%AB%E5%B0%BC%E7%9C%9F%E4%BA%BA%E7%B3%BB%E5%88%97%E6%96%B0%E4%BD%8E%E6%A8%99/id1521956316?i=1000490544664