並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep10-%E5%A4%A7%E5%B9%B4%E5%88%9D%E4%BA%94-%E8%BF%8E%E8%B2%A1%E7%A5%9E-%E9%82%84%E6%98%AF%E5%88%9D%E5%9B%9B%E5%91%A2/id1549487716?i=1000509467616