並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep45-%E6%9C%80%E6%AF%9B%E6%87%B8%E6%A1%88-%E5%BD%B0%E5%8C%96%E6%AF%8D%E5%A5%B3-%E9%87%9C%E5%B1%B1%E5%A4%AB%E5%A6%BB%E5%A4%B1%E8%B9%A4%E6%A1%88%E9%83%BD%E8%88%87%E9%9B%BB%E6%A2%AF%E6%9C%89%E9%97%9C/id1481974304?i=1000482534755