並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep65-%E6%96%B0%E6%98%A5%E5%B0%B1%E6%98%AF%E8%A6%81%E8%A9%A6%E8%A9%A6%E7%94%B1%E5%85%A7%E8%80%8C%E5%A4%96%E7%9A%84%E7%B4%85-%E8%B7%9F%E8%91%97%E9%9B%B7%E5%A4%A7%E5%96%9D%E5%95%A4%E9%85%92%E5%8E%BB-%E5%95%A4%E9%85%92%E9%A0%AD-%E7%AB%8B%E6%98%A5/id1510245069?i=1000550058230